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Thread: Bot farm said to have taken $10m out of ACR economy

  1. #21
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    There is a big problem on ACR which is getting little attention.

    ACR is not just ACR. It's a network of skins which all feed into the same games. That network is called WPN (Winning Poker Network). ACR is the flagship skin.

    The problem is that there are certain skins aimed at foreign players which are behaving quesitonably, to say the least. Poker King is rumored to be the preferred skin for a lot of the bot operators.

    It is not clear to me whether the skins do player identity verification, or if WPN does it. If it's done at the skin level, a dirty skin can just cram on a ton of fake bot accounts, and ACR has no control over it.

    I have asked ACR for clarification on this policy, but of course they won't answer me. I think it's no coincidence that a lot of the bot operators seem to prefer the Poker King skin.

     
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      Sanlmar: sharp take

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  3. #23
    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    I am no riggie but had some god awull Nut to ace top flush beat by sf 2x. Few days ago had kk board was 33k obv what happened next Other one I took was aa into a33 board. Sometimes I do heavy lifting had kk intokk3 board min bet call next card was ace all chips went in quad kings vs ace full house aa boat. That was really nice to get guy fell out of chair insta quit.

  4. #24
    Gold Ryback_feed_me_more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Oh color me shocked there are bots on the chinese poker apps.

  5. #25
    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    Why can't they just keep sending links to player while they are on choosing a card to show they are not a bot.

  6. #26
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO View Post
    Why can't they just keep sending links to player while they are on choosing a card to show they are not a bot.
    People have been able to beat those captchas, so those aren't particularly effective. If you're advanced enough to program a winning bot network, you're probably also able to beat captchas.

  7. #27
    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    I see. People reported them on 2 plus 2 tell tale clues where long sessions same response time certain countries like russia where suspect. People are sending reports to acr think they are being ignored.

  8. #28
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    The poker community's attention span is like that of a 2-year-old.

    Here this was a pretty huge bot scandal, ACR handled it terribly, and then the community just gave up without any real progress. This is even worse than how the community lost interest in the GGPoker superuser scandal, as at least that one there was the excuse that the ACR story stole the attention.

    Here there was no big story to steal the attention. It just died. So... win for ACR, I guess?

    ACR took this opportunity to very quietly a statement on the situation, pledging the same old BS they pledge every time there's bot concerns brought onto social media:

    Response to recent security concerns

    January 17, 2024

    WPN takes game security and integrity very seriously. We deploy significant resources and technology toward identifying any bad actors that look to gain an unfair advantage or cheat our players out of their funds.

    Players have recently expressed concern over a group of accounts playing over the course of the past 12 months. These accounts have all been through a rigorous set of security protocols through the natural course of business. These protocols were performed in real-time prior to the list being made public earlier this month. Given the serious nature of the accusations against these specific accounts, we have undergone additional review.

    As a result of the standard protocols, the majority of the identified accounts have previously been prohibited from playing on the site and have not been active since the protocols were enforced. Several dozen of the publicly identified accounts passed the screening, which included hundreds of hours of video recordings of play that we insisted be performed to assure that the account was legitimate. Given the continued concerns expressed by members of our player community, out of an abundance of caution we have decided to suspend each of these accounts and put those accounts through additional scrutiny before they are permitted to continue play.

    In accordance with our policies and where such determinations can be made, we will refund players where we have identified bad actors negatively impacted other players.

    The fight against bad actors using a variety of means to cheat is an ongoing battle for all online poker operators. We are committed to investing in staying ahead of these cheaters.

    As part of that commitment we consistently review our security protocols and make changes and improvements based on feedback, player behaviour and as a result of our continual investigations into suspicious play. Our current security protocols include:

    - Mandatory player documentation updates

    - Captcha technology and table pixelation changes

    - Software that renders bots who use live data collection such as PPL or OpenPPL ineffective

    - Video-recorded sessions of players for pattern evaluation where play is matched to previous hand histories to compare results

    - Deep dives of hand and play history across all our games

    - Recent banning of virtual and remote access machines

    - Introduction of features such as PLO Reshuffle which puts folded hole cards back into the deck to reduce collusion opportunities

    - Recent partnership with GTO Wizard to enhance GTO analysis protocols and detection

    - Investment in tools that improve data analysis and detection capabilities


    As a result of these recent concerns, we are undergoing a full review of these current protocols and expect to make additional changes and enhancements to our security measures and to increase our already significant investment in security and game integrity.

    We hope that players will continue to trust us with their play as they have for more than 20 years and will take comfort in the knowledge that protecting the game is one of our most important activities.
    https://www.acrpoker.eu/blog/acr-pok...rity-concerns/


    How quietly was this released?

    It was not put out on their official Twitter account ACR_POKER, nor did any of their pros tweet it out. Almost nobody tweeted about it at all, aside from me and a few othres.

    I'll give my response to the statement itself in the next post...

  9. #29
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Most of this statement isn't really worth discussing. It's the same list of empty promises and phony pledges of vigilance we've seen from ACR time and time again, regarding the bot issue.

    However, I would like to discuss two things.

    First, their "PLO Reshuffle" idea is horrible. Like it's really really really bad. The concept involves putting all folded cards in PLO back in the deck, thus eliminating the value of holecard sharing by players who have folded. On the surface, this sounds good. However, it totally breaks the game of PLO, which is largely dependent upon reads as to what cards are both held by in-hand opponents AND folded cards by opponetns out of the hand!

    I'll give you an example.

    Say you have AA78 rainbow, and you are pretty sure an opponent also has AA in their hand, based upon their preflop play. The board comes 965 with two spades, and you don't have the ace of spades. If you push the other AA off, you can be somewhat confident that the ace of spades is out, and therefore you can put pressure on oppoennts with two spades, whom you know do not have the nut flush draw! If that folded ace goes back in the deck, then it can pop out on the turn or river, and now anyone with the king-spades draw knows they have the nuts.

    So this is terrible. You simply can't shuffle back in folded cards, as it ruins the reads regarded which cards were folded!



    But the bigger problem here is what the statement does NOT say. They still will not commit to -- or even discuss -- the bizarre decision they made awhile back to suppress locations on each account. Players used to be able to see which countries their opponents were from, making it easier to identify potential bots. That's not the case anymore, and ACR won't explain why that was taken away, nor why they won't put it back.

    Until ACR puts these locations back -- or gives a reasonable explanation why they're gone -- they're not serious about stopping bots.

  10. #30
    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    Reshuffle plo is a choice you can play. You can play at non shuffle tables. I would never play the reshuffel if they make it exclusively shuffle omaha I am done. They have other issues I have concerns about which are way worse then reshuffle tables.

  11. #31
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    ACR looks to be following the same trajectory as Lock Poker.

  12. #32
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    Something I recently noticed.

    A few years ago, when Joey Ingram got on ACR's ass. They came up with an "open door" type of policy where they openly shared the "Banned Accounts, how much they confiscated, and even the screen names of who got refunded and how much.

    When this whole bot ring thing came up, I had went to the website and was able to see that they hadn't banned (publicly) any bots in close to a year, therefore they hadn't refunded any money per their policy in over a year.

    Something had sparked my interest in this list again today, and I went looking for it, and couldn't find it. I went to their twitter and found the below post, clicked on the link...."PAGE NOT FOUND"

    https://www.winningpokernetwork.com/banned-accounts/

    It appears they have taken down the ability to see the banned accounts and what players were affected/refunded.

    It is still in their policy that they refund (up to $25k) per banned account, but how do we know what accounts are banned?

    https://americascardroom.eu/poker-cu...ame-integrity/

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  13. #33
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    BUMP

    ACR released an update today.

    Lo and behold, they finally put the country location display back into the software. This was removed awhile back for unknown reasons, which infuriated players because it made it more difficult to determine which opponents were bots. Prior to this info being removed, it was observed that there were a ton of suspected bots from Belarus and Kazakhstan.

    So this is a positive development.

    Is it a sign that ACR is taking the botting seriously?

    Not necessarily.

    Note that they have not clamped down on the Poker King skin, which is suspected of being the gateway for most of these eastern European bots.

    Given that Poker King manages the KYC (know your customer) process for its own players, it is very easy for bots to get onto ACR, with little-to-no real verification done. ACR needs to get control of the Poker King situation if they want to claim to be getting serious about bots.

    Some people have stated that bot networks can simply VPN into the system, and the country display doesn't matter. I disagree. VPNs are relatively easy to detect. I even detect them on this forum. If ACR wanted to, they could take over the verification from skins like Poker King, do a strict KYC process for new users, and aggressively detect VPNs. That would greatly reduce the botting.

    Will they do this? I'm guessing from the priorities of the CEO, they probably won't:

    https://twitter.com/wpn_ceo/status/1764249713518194692

  14. #34
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    My remark this morning is getting about 50% of the likes as the original ACR post, despite much less exposure.

    I'm only half joking, though.

    https://twitter.com/ToddWitteles/status/1766127254076363150

  15. #35
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here's the info about Dwan's controversy, in case you're wondering: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...t-of-big-money

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