What kind of bankroll would I need for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
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What kind of bankroll would I need for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
This is a very high-risk way of attaining Seven Stars. I guess it can be okay to get to Diamond, as that requires only 10% of the play compared to Seven Stars.Quote:
Originally Posted by StepbanginWhat kind of bankroll would I need for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
The problem here is that you're wagering a staggering $125 per hand, since it's 100-play.
While it's true that the 100-play factor will somewhat smooth out the "running bad on draws" problem, it can be absolutely brutal if you get dealt a lot of bad starting hands.
Even ignoring the variance of this $125/hand machine, there is also a potential catastrophe waiting when you play a 98.98% return machine.
The non-royal return of a 98.98% machine is 97.02%. That means you would lose $14,900 on the way to Seven Stars on average if you don't hit a royal! If you run badly on top of missing royals (such as lacking good quads), you could lose over $20,000. Ouch!
I would avoid this machine for earning Seven Stars. If you just want Diamond and don't mind risking low-4-figures, then have at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I will be in Vegas later this month and was considering trying Diamond in a Day on VP and would likely go with PH DSTP JOB 9/5. But see on VPFree Caesar's has a 3 play spin poker $1 JOB at 9/5 as well that appears to be $10 coin in per tier credit. Does anyone have any thoughts on playing this machine for DIAD? I would think it would be comparable to 3 play in the DSTP at PH. Since I'm staying at Caesar's it will be a little more convenient to log some hours on that machine. Appreciate any thoughts thanks.
Yes, there is a 3-play Super Times Pay Spin Poker at Caesars, which is 9-5 and supposedly gives one tier per $10.Quote:
Originally Posted by frontlinewinnerQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I will be in Vegas later this month and was considering trying Diamond in a Day on VP and would likely go with PH DSTP JOB 9/5. But see on VPFree Caesar's has a 3 play spin poker $1 JOB at 9/5 as well that appears to be $10 coin in per tier credit. Does anyone have any thoughts on playing this machine for DIAD? I would think it would be comparable to 3 play in the DSTP at PH. Since I'm staying at Caesar's it will be a little more convenient to log some hours on that machine. Appreciate any thoughts thanks.
The return on that machine is 98.72%, versus 98.95% on the PH machine which is Double Super Times Pay.
I will say that the variance in Super Times Pay is less, because you're only putting in a sixth credit instead of a sixth AND seventh credit. So that is one nice feature of the machine versus the higher-return PH one.
Keep in mind, though, that the variance will still be high.
One problem with Diamond in a Day is that you're not very likely to hit a royal. If you fail to hit one, you need to knock about 2% off your expected return, which means you will lose over $1600 on average in such a situation. Then if you run below expectation with the whole Super Times Pay multiplier, or if you just don't hit your proper share of other payouts, you can easily lose over $2500.
So keep that in mind.
I just returned from Vegas and while playin the slots at Paris and other Caesar's properties I noticed that while playing you aren't awarded bonus tier credits while playing like they did in the past. The total tier credits earned was about 50% less than I have earned in previous years for same amount of play making it less likely I will keep my diamond status. Something has changed. Will be interested to know if Druff experience is the same.
You should have gone to Total Rewards and asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamGreek
You can still e-mail them through the Contact Us form and ask what your tier credits earned each day were, and what bonus you earned from it.
Bonus tier credits are the same in 2017 as they have been the past few years.
It's possible you got screwed in some way.
This is why I advise people to pull their card every so often, put it back in, and make sure it reports the proper number of tiers earned.
I once watched a guy at Rincon play 5000 tiers in one sitting, never pull his card to check, and then it registered him as playing zero! I told him to go to Total Rewards. He went there, and they said they were "looking into it". He wasn't happy.
I got the bonus you get after a earning session. What I wasn't getting were the smaller bonus credits you would get while playing. It was to your benefit to stay on same machine rather than moving around. It would show you on the machine you were playing that you have earned xxx rc's, xxx tc's and xxx bonus tc's as I recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffYou should have gone to Total Rewards and asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamGreek
You can still e-mail them through the Contact Us form and ask what your tier credits earned each day were, and what bonus you earned from it.
Bonus tier credits are the same in 2017 as they have been the past few years.
It's possible you got screwed in some way.
This is why I advise people to pull their card every so often, put it back in, and make sure it reports the proper number of tiers earned.
I once watched a guy at Rincon play 5000 tiers in one sitting, never pull his card to check, and then it registered him as playing zero! I told him to go to Total Rewards. He went there, and they said they were "looking into it". He wasn't happy.
Greek is referring to the bonus RC'S players used to get for playing slots or VP in Vegas. They were awarded based on machine Theo.
Unfortunately, CET did away with them several years ago. (2012-ish)
For video poker, yes. I believe they may have kept the bonus RC'S for slots around for a couple years after that, but those are gone now too.
Vegas is the stone nut low for CET machine players. The few good VP paytables that exist all require $25 coin in/point, the offers have been slashed to practically nothing, and there are no promos (point multiplier days, etc.) EVER.
Real competition needs to be brought back to the Las Vegas Strip. I was hoping there was a shot at that with the CET bankruptcy but that ship has sailed for the time being. (MGM certainly isn't going anywhere.)
If a visionary owner were to set up shop somewhere on the Strip with good gambling, (loose slots like exist in Reno, good VP, no 6-5 BJ, 10x or better odds on craps, single zero roulette, etc.) and said owner were to make these features the cornerstone of their advertising/marketing campaigns, I'm convinced they would make an absolute killing.
Jack Binion did this in Tunica back in the day and it was wildly successful. That place got more purple/yellow chip action than I've ever seen.
Derek Stevens, are you listening??
I will be hitting PH in Vegas later this week for my first run at DinaD!! Im nervous as hell!!!
Just checked VPFREE2 again. It turns out the Super Times Pay is only 1-play, though it does have a $2/credit option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffYes, there is a 3-play Super Times Pay Spin Poker at Caesars, which is 9-5 and supposedly gives one tier per $10.Quote:
Originally Posted by frontlinewinner
The return on that machine is 98.72%, versus 98.95% on the PH machine which is Double Super Times Pay.
I will say that the variance in Super Times Pay is less, because you're only putting in a sixth credit instead of a sixth AND seventh credit. So that is one nice feature of the machine versus the higher-return PH one.
Keep in mind, though, that the variance will still be high.
One problem with Diamond in a Day is that you're not very likely to hit a royal. If you fail to hit one, you need to knock about 2% off your expected return, which means you will lose over $1600 on average in such a situation. Then if you run below expectation with the whole Super Times Pay multiplier, or if you just don't hit your proper share of other payouts, you can easily lose over $2500.
So keep that in mind.
I would suggest just avoiding this machine and running the credits at Planet Hollywood, which is both faster and has a better overall return.
Also updated Harrah's Lake Tahoe game info
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffJust checked VPFREE2 again. It turns out the Super Times Pay is only 1-play, though it does have a $2/credit option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I would suggest just avoiding this machine and running the credits at Planet Hollywood, which is both faster and has a better overall return.
VPFree2 is incorrect on this one (perhaps due formatting constraints). This machine at Caesars Palace is a $1|$2 denom 9/5 JoB Spin Poker w/Super Times Pay. 9 lines and a max bet of 54 credits (up to $108/spin). You can play as few as 6 credits (1 line, STP feature active). Location is the small high limit room in front of the main cashier, between two All-Star Poker II machines.
The best game at the Rio is 99.17% Bonus Poker at the $1 denom, single line. This bank of machines awards full Tier Credits ($10 for 1 TC) and is located directly in front of the Sports Bar.
Information is accurate as of March 31, 2017 (I played on both VP machines to qualify for the "Quest For Rewards" promotion).
An update for Atlantic City: Bally's Park Place offers single line $5|$10 denom 9/7/5 Double Bonus Poker (99.11%), awarding full Tier Credits, in the high limit room.
Thanks, will update both lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by nerakilQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
VPFree2 is incorrect on this one (perhaps due formatting constraints). This machine at Caesars Palace is a $1|$2 denom 9/5 JoB Spin Poker w/Super Times Pay. 9 lines and a max bet of 54 credits (up to $108/spin). You can play as few as 6 credits (1 line, STP feature active). Location is the small high limit room in front of the main cashier, between two All-Star Poker II machines.
The best game at the Rio is 99.17% Bonus Poker at the $1 denom, single line. This bank of machines awards full Tier Credits ($10 for 1 TC) and is located directly in front of the Sports Bar.
Information is accurate as of March 31, 2017 (I played on both VP machines to qualify for the "Quest For Rewards" promotion).
An update for Atlantic City: Bally's Park Place offers single line $5|$10 denom 9/7/5 Double Bonus Poker (99.11%), awarding full Tier Credits, in the high limit room.
My point still stands regarding the Caesars machine, though. While playing it will reduce variance a bit, I don't see it being worth running credits on that machine versus the better Double Super Times Pay machine at PH.
Just updated Indiana, Illinois, Atlantic City, Tahoe, and Vegas markets.
Please let me know if you see any inaccuracies, or have additional information.
I want to point something out to people looking to make Diamond or Seven Stars.
You might see the "expected loss" numbers and get wrongly excited.
"$230 for Diamond? Great! I had no idea I could get it so cheaply!"
But wait. That's the expected loss, but not the TYPICAL loss. Those are two different things.
This is because video poker is a high-variance game, and your success is usually hinged upon hitting royal flushes. If you don't hit one, you are going to lose quickly, barring an unusual run of luck with the other payouts.
Let me give you a quick example of what I mean.
Say that 10,000 people all put $100 in a pot, and a winner was picked at random. The winner would get $1,000,000. The losers would all get zero. So there would be 9,999 losers, and one winner.
The EXPECTED loss would be zero, because there would be zero house edge here -- all player money put in would be paid out. However, the TYPICAL loss would be $100 -- as 9,999 of the 10,000 people would experience that result.
So back to our video poker situation.
The royal flush accounts for about 2% of the payout in most games.
This means that a game which is 99.54% return becomes just 97.54% if you hit no royals. That's a huge difference.
You also aren't likely to play enough hands on the way to Diamond to hit a royal. Sometimes you will get lucky and do so, but most times you will not.
Even on the way to Seven Stars, you might not hit one. If you play only $5/credit 1-play machines, your chance of hitting at least one royal is only 39%! It's a higher chance if you do multiplay at lower denominations, but you get my point. For example, despite mostly doing multiplay in Lake Tahoe this year, I did not hit a royal on the way to Seven Stars! And yes, my results were pretty bad.
If you do not hit a royal on the way to Diamond, which you probably won't, you will lose an additional $1000 on average.
If you do not hit a royal on the way to Seven Stars, you will lose an additional $10,000 on average.
(These are not exact number, but approximate and very close.)
Above that, you can lose even more if you have worse-than-average luck at hitting the non-royal hands.
You should not be shocked if you lose $20,000 on the way to Seven Stars, or $3000 on the way to Diamond. So if you can't afford such losses, you shouldn't try to earn Diamond or Seven Stars. It's still gambling!
so why even bother playing the Deal/draw option?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
why not just play the normal 5 coin-in for 9/7 tdb?
Good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyGameso why even bother playing the Deal/draw option?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
why not just play the normal 5 coin-in for 9/7 tdb?
I think you may not have a choice. I didn't personally play this machine.
when I was there in feb, the denominations were $5/10/25.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
$25 is best because even at $5 denomination, all quads and above will require a W2-G tax form. the hand below quads is a full house. the full house pays $1125 which won't generate a tax form.
yes, that's $125 a spin but imagine a Royal. $100k! cha-ching $$$. Also, since you're putting in $50k coin-in for Diamond, it doesn't matter how you reach that amount, whether it's $10 at a time or $125.
I just got back from a trip to Harrah's Tahoe. I was already well on my way to Diamond (the wrong way -- just from spending money in Vegas), but wanted to try and get the final 4000 tier credits at Harrah's before my next trip to Vegas. My boyfriend was a little apprehensive about the hotel based off the exterior look, but the Executive room (which have 2 bathrooms) was quite nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
The 50 play machine towards the back of the High Roller area (on the right of the cashier) is a ton of fun! I unfortunately didn't find it until after losing a few hundred at one of the machines closer to the front which didn't seem to have the right pay table, but as soon as I hit a Royal on the 50 play, I was back in the green.
I ended up earning 1000 tier credits twice (on 2 separate days, so I got the 1000 bonus tier credits each time) after playing the 50 play machine with minimum bets for around an hour. Ended up getting 4000 total tier credits (pushing me to Diamond) and I actually made $100. I'll definitely go back as soon as my Diamond expires to do Diamond in a Day.
Thanks for the tips! Quick questions -- my Total Rewards account says Diamond will expire on January 31st, 2018. Can I assume that it'll actually be 2019 considering I just earned it? Also, does anyone know the hours for the Diamond check-in in Vegas? I recall seeing it was open only on certain days...