Vietnamese Poker rooms allegedly charging a 10% winning fee under the guise of Government Tax

I was shown this post by a friend in a Vietnamese Poker Group on Facebook name "Poker & Cuộc Sống" https://www.facebook.com/groups/pokervacuocsong (Poker & Life) .

The Facebook post is as follows:

"I came across this FB post which shared my sentiments regarding the 10% winning fee (or some would call it ‘government tax’ ) imposed by international poker tours when hosted in Vietnam. In the past, like many others, I believed this fee was a legitimate tax submitted to the government. However, I have since learned that this is not the case at all. This revelation has prompted me to reconsider my support for such events.
I've been asked if I plan to attend the upcoming USOP Danang event, and my answer is a resounding NO. I cannot in good conscience support a tour that misleads or misinforms its players. Without the support of players, both locally and internationally, successful events would not be possible. Therefore, upon reviewing the Player Guide and discovering that the organiser still intends to impose a 10% "government tax" on winnings at the Danang event, my decision to boycott the event was swift.
I stand in solidarity with the Vietnamese poker community in advocating for transparency. As of now, Vietnamese laws do not impose a tax on poker winnings. So, it is unjustifiable for organizers to charge players under the guise of a government tax. This behaviour is nothing short of a scam.
Considering that an international tour typically garners an average prize pool of USD 4-6 million, the 10% fee equates to an astounding USD 400,000-600,000 lining the organizers' pockets per event. While some of this may be allocated to ‘under-the-table’ expenses, it's unlikely to justify the full amount. International tours hosts events in Vietnam minimum 10 times throughout a year, raising questions about the extent to which players' funds are being siphoned under the pretense of a "government tax."
It's imperative foreign international players are aware and informed about this issue. As players, we have the right to transparency and full disclosure to make informed decisions about participating in events held on Vietnamese soil. Personally, I've resolved never to attend another poker tournament event in Vietnam as long as this 10% fee is charged.
If players unite and advocate together, we have the power to compel organizers to reconsider their stance on collecting additional fees from players under the false claim of a government tax. It's time for accountability and fairness in the poker community.
Ultimately, it's up to each player to weigh their options and decide whether the potential tournament ROI outweighs these 'fees', and whether they should participate accordingly."

USOP refers to U Series of Poker - https://useriespoker.com/

I have have read through their most recent players guide which mentions on Page 11 under TOURNAMENT RULES - Notes: "Prizes above VND 10,000,000 (~US$405) LESS the amount of player's buy-in(s) are subject to government tax of 10%" https://useriespoker.com/files/usop-...ayer-guide.pdf

I have also noticed another Vietnamese Poker League advertising on their recent marketing "No Winning Fee" which until I saw this post, I wasn't sure what this was referring to.

I have dozens of friends that travel to South East Asia to play in their series over that last 12 months, due to its close proximity to Australia. They have done very well and won several events, including High Rollers, so I hate to think how much "fake tax" or "winning fees" they have paid if this 10% Tax is confirmed not to be a Government Tax.

I have now read through WPT Prime Vietnam 2023 players guide which mentions on Page 2 at the bottom in fine print: "Prizes above VND10,000,000 less than the amount of player's buy-in/s are subject to government tax of 10%. The tax will apply for each tournament."

https://wptmedia.wpt.com/wp-content/...r-Guide-V2.pdf

So it appears to be multiple Festivals in Vietnam by at least 2 operators. Both of these past festivals and the future one in Danang seem to be hosted by Crown Poker Club, so it is possible that the "tax" is related to Crown Poker Club, perhaps they have to pay some type of tax and pass on the costs, but if so it should be transparent and not stated to be a Government Tax if it isn't

Posted as a follow up on Facebook on the original post:

NO WINNING FEE!
·
ATTENTION POKER PLAYERS:
As a local vietnamese player, I want to share one hidden thing that i’m sure you’ll want to know
Do you guys ever wonder why they use “winning fee” instead of Tax in Vietnam? Because THERE IS NO TAX.
The 10% winning fee we usually have to pay is not a tax. Those organizations just made it up and they make it look like a tax, then poker players will accept it, like the 30% tax in US if you go to play WSOP. A lot of Vietnamese players already asked to see the tax receipt, but no one got it, not a single one.
So where does the money go? good question. If its not for the government, who takes this amount of money? I think we do have the same answers.
We always see the poker organizations in vietnam mention coin in prize pool such as L,C… instead of vnd or any currency. Those coins are just the prize you will win, then the poker club will convert it to vnd for you. these are 2 different steps. According to the law, we cant win any money. And as long as its not money like vnd or usd, we dont have to pay tax (as of now) because we dont have personal income.
Lets do a calculation, one series we buy in 20K$, we won one tournament 35K$, Gross profit are 15K$ and winning fee is 3.5K, Our net winning profit is 11.5K$. So literally they steal 20% - 30% of our profit which is insane
And to be clear, im not against paying tax,but it has to be a tax. If its not a tax, im not willing to pay those ppl anymore.
But if it’s a tax, just one request, show me my tax receipts. then, i might keep playing.
AND THEN FROM NOW ON, I WONT PLAY THAT MUCH TOURNAMENT THAT HAVE WINNING FEE IN VIETNAM. Many other Vietnamese players agree and are doing the same.
Otherwise if those organizations want to charge us more, lets make it clear that its 20% rake + 3% staff fee. Then if any player is okay with this, they can keep playing. JUST DONT MADE THINGS UP. IT IS NOT COOL.
We are poker players. We support those poker series and pay them a lot of rake. We deserve to be treated well, or at least dont lie to us, because we are not dumb
DEAR POKER ORGANZATIONS, ITS TIME TO SHOW RESPECT TO PLAYERS
AND DEAR POKER PLAYERS, IT IS TIME TO SPEAK UP AND DECIDE WHAT GAME YOU ARE GONNA PLAY & WHAT ORGANIZATIONS YOU WANT TO SUPPORT
Join Vietnamese Poker Group and read this topic from beginning of the story
https://www.facebook.com/.../permalink/926145486180980/
Please tag your poker friends and share this post with #Antiwinningfeeinpoker

U Series of Poker

Official Statement (via Facebook) https://www.facebook.com/useriespoker

In light of growing concerns from players regarding the 10% tax on winnings at USOP Danang, or at any international event held in Vietnam.
We would like to clarify that USOP has followed the proper protocol according to our local partner, Crown Poker Club, in order to successfully and legally organize an international tournament in Vietnam. USOP does not partake in the winning fee in any shape or form. Our partner ensures the appropriate licenses from the relevant authorities are applied for the event from this winning fee, as with other international brands who have successfully organized their tournaments in Vietnam in the past.
We fully trust our partner to do the necessary administrative due diligence with the fees collected solely for the purpose of facilitating the event and not for personal gain.




Crown Poker Club

Official Statement (via Facebook) https://www.facebook.com/CrownPokerClubVN

Here's a thought: If you have a problem with the fee, don't play in the tournament.

What’s interesting is in a number of these Asian countries the casinos are strictly for tourists. For instance Vietnam…

According to Article 248 of the constitution, the penalty is a minimum of 3 years imprisonment and a maximum of 7 years for anyone found gambling (losing or winning 50 million dong or more). Any person found guilty for being a professional gambler or repeat offender will suffer the same penalty.

With most of the major casinos cutting out the WPT from their tournament series they are clearly looking for alternatives and Asia presents one. Also they have this Cruise ship disaster where they are trying to full a whole fucking ship with poker players. They recently had to hire Joey Ingram to do an “Investigation” to try and fill this cruise ship.

Obviously these countries and the entities that work with them are going to squeeze every cent they can. Unfortunately, when you are playing poker in a country that citizens can go to prison for gambling…well it’s going to be tough to quibble over whatever “taxes and fees” they institute. Sorry to say but this doesn’t seem like a promising fight to have. They will take out what they want out of the pool one way or another. Whether that’s called a tax, fee, etc… it’s doesn’t really matter. They are going to take out what they want.

Yes, I tend to agree with you. The main issue I have I guess is on principles, the dishonesty and guise of Government taxes. The international guests have been paying it win after win, cash after cash, series after series, you assume it's all above board when you see "Government Tax" withheld, and you aren't about to question an operator in another country that you don't know the "ins and outs" of taxation like they "should". It was only called out by a player who has local Vietnamese expertise, speaks the language etc. Many players have threatened to boycott the series now they are aware, or until everything is clarified at least, and there is at least one other operator advertising "No Winning Fee" . Overall I've heard good things about professionalism and running of series, player experience outside of the winning fees.