Suspected fraud at Betfair and Coral Poker

[SirDehi]

Good afternoon,

I feel compelled to post here. There seems to be a thread identically named on 2+2, in which the moderators their are removing select messages from the thread.
I truly hope expression of opinions won't be limited here.

TLDR of the case: A small group of twister (= spin and goes on ipoker) players are coercing Betfair/Coral to ban and suspend new regulars that want to grind twisters. They do this in order to protect their immense share of winnings through rakeback and rake races. Many people believe the scam has been going on for years, and that Betfair and Coral are actually in on it, and not being coerced.

Original thread link: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2.../#post54883933
HTML Backup of the thread as of Sunday 3 March at 12:00pm CET : https://pastebin.com/E2XHLSGk
HTML Backup of the thread as of Sunday 3 Martch at 4:00pm CET : https://pastebin.com/qRZ97i2U

If you check the difference backups (just copy paste the content, save into a file with the .html extension, and open in a browser), you will see multiple people noticing the deletion and edition of posts.

The mods of 2+2 are concerned with respecting the users will to have their posts deleted, and therefore also deleted links to my HTML Backups. One must wonder if it is to respect the user's decision to have his posts deleted, or maybe another less legitimate option. I personally believe the mods are doing their work, but it doesn't answer the question as to why the users had/wanted their post removed. People speculate they negociated or talked to the "cartel" (that is what people seem call the group of players getting regulars banned in order to profit from rakeback).

I would like to request that the information presented here is to be untampered with so the community can inspect this issue and get clarity on who is responsible and whether or not the claims of fraud are true.

Thank you,

[SirDehi]

HTML backup of the thread, the date and time of the back up is the same as this post: https://pastebin.com/aKPd59P9

Interesting that one of the user's who got their message deleted just claimed they did not request it. Here is the message below.



Quote by user called "folesha" (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/534849/)

Interesting, im not a troll wrote reasonable things, and it got deleted.


Poster claims:
- a stable owner who got banned 1.5 years ago after playing 50 twisters
- didnt want to do anything about it until the day before yesterday
- got random skype chats from Andy Greekfish and someone else, they threatened him to take off the post as they mistakenly thought he made the thread
- got pissed of and said he will leak infos in 48 hours



----> post deleted


______


I already heard couple people making deal with the cartel, they let them play 50s and 100s for not speaking out on open forums.

**** this is maybe way bigger stuff than I ever imagined.

[SirDehi]

I am glad to have activated email notifications of the responses to this thread, as the above user message was immediately deleted.

New post :

fragglerock45 has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Suspected fraud at Betfair and Coral Poker - in the Internet Poker forum of Two Plus Two Poker Forums.

This thread is located at:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...5&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by SirDehi)---
Image: https://truthatron3000.files.wordpre...gif?w=87&h=202
---End Quote---
I made a post with just a few links to Andy Greekfish's twitter and hendonmob profile etc. and it was simply deleted.

The guy has hosted podcasts online and played televised poker events.

Decided to post as obviously Greekfish is not his his real surname.

[ftpjesus]

You mean Mason Mallmutt and his pendaditcal jackass dick suckers like Professional Poker and the rest of his 'mods' are protecting fraudlent stuff being exposed on their site.. Im shocked shocked I say.. Mason probably was told by one of his buddies at Betfair to cover the shit up.. This isn't the first time he and his jackass jocksniffers have done this.. Hell for all we know some of them maybe in on it potentially..

[SirDehi]

Copy/pasting a new message that includes a couple names (before it gets deleted).

Belaba has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Suspected fraud at Betfair and Coral Poker - in the Internet Poker forum of Two Plus Two Poker Forums.

This thread is located at:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...5&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
True. Andy Greekfish and Martin Munro steal from players with this. Texican1988 has proof !
***************

[ftpjesus]

Copy/pasting a new message that includes a couple names (before it gets deleted).

Belaba has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Suspected fraud at Betfair and Coral Poker - in the Internet Poker forum of Two Plus Two Poker Forums.

This thread is located at:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...5&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
True. Andy Greekfish and Martin Munro steal from players with this. Texican1988 has proof !
***************

Fail.. Either your cut and paste missed I don't see the posting on Four either..

Nevermind re read it and once again another of Masons Nuthuggers edited the post to block names

[SirDehi]

I am copy/pasting messages that seem to have interesting information. The reason being, as you saw, is that they *likely* get edited or deleted. I don't think it would surprise anybody if the 2+2 thread is deleted in the future.

Here is another copy/paste.
I will not continue conserving the information/posts from the 2+2 thread.
I believe that with the below message (aswell as all the info available in this here thread) will constitute a good informational basis for whoever decides to investigate the issue further.
Thanks for allowing all the posts and information to simply be here.

Posted today by user folesha (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/534849/) at 11:21 am CET.

A big hungarian forum disclosed a statement 1 month ago:

Quote:
Személyes megbeszélésen egyezetettünk mind külföldi partnerünk vezetőjével - velük futtatjuk a Betfair €100.000 race-t -, mind az iPoker Twisterért felelős biztonsági vezetőjével.
Január 31-én jelent meg "x ezer eurós promóció a Betfair Pokeren!" cikkünk. Ebben arról számoltunk be, hogy bár az iPoker terme februártól kivezeti központi promócióinak egy részét, helyette viszont, a ZY játékosaiként, a korábbinál sokkal nagyobb extra nyereményekért versenyezhettek: egy összesen x díjazással futó, több race-t magában foglaló promóció vált elérhetővé számotokra, heti €x-s race-ek, kéthetes x Micro Cash Race-ek és x Micro Twister Race-ek formájában.
Bár a hír alapvetően örömteli, a cikk topikjában több játékos vádakat fogalmazott meg, amelyek szerint ezeket az iPokeres race-eket egy Twistert játszó kartell uralja, akik kapcsolatban állnak az iPoker magas beosztású alkalmazottaival, és azokat a játékosokat, akik veszélyeztetik őket a legnagyobb race-nyeremények megszerzésében, jogtalanul kitiltatják. Mint a fórumon is jeleztük, nagyon komolyan vettük a vádakat, igyekeztünk megvizsgálni ezeket. Előbb felvettük a kapcsolatot több érintett játékossal, majd a múlt hét folyamán, személyes megbeszélésen egyezetettünk mind külföldi partnerünk vezetőjével - velük futtatjuk a Betfair x race-t -, mind az iPoker Twisterért felelős biztonsági vezetőjével.

Utóbbi elmondta, minden olyan játékos - nem csak magyarokról van szó -, akit az utóbbi időben kitiltottak, tiltott valósidejű solver botot használt, erre vonatkozóan bizonyítékai vannak a teremnek. Ahogyan fogalmazott, a játékosokról a GTO-ellenőrzés során kiderült, többezer játék alatt gyakorlatilag egyetlen hibát sem követtek el.

Továbbá azt is elmondta, hogy ezen játékosok nagy része a PokerStarsról is bannolásra került a tavalyi év végén, ugyanilyen okból. Ahogyan fogalmazott: "Mutassák meg nekem a Stars accountjaikat, ha nem használnak botot".

Which is something like:
Quote:
We had a personal meeting with the leader of our partner- we run the x eur race, and we had a meeting with the head of security team of Ipoker Twisters

On January 31st we had an article about this new x eur promotion. We informed our players that Ipoker departs part of its main promotions, but our players will be playing for even bigger prices: one x eur race, which has multiple smaller races, weekly x eur races, bi-weekly x eur Micro Cash races and x eur Micro Twister Races.


Even though these are happy news, lots of our players raised concerns about the integrity of twisters, as they claim it is run by a cartel who has connections at the highest levels of game integrity and all the players who pose danger on them in the races get banned. As we said on our forums we took the concerns seriosuly and tried to investigate. We contacted first couple of the allegedly cheated players, and then the last week we had meetings with the leader of our partner- we run the x eur race, and also the leader of Twisters integrity team.

The integrity leader said that all the players- NOT JUST HUNGARIANS!- who got banned lately used a real time postflop GTO advicer. They didnt make any mistake in thousands of games.

Furthermore he said MOST OF THESE PLAYERS GOT BANNED FROM POKERSTARS THE LAST YEAR, FOR THE SAME REASON. He also said: "these players should show me their stars account if they didnt use bots".

About the players who stay in top of the leaderboards in the weekly 20k Twister Races and whom players said are "protected players" , are only protected in a sense that they are small winner/breakeven players, good of the economy"

Our statament regarding this scandal:
The experiences shows this is only twister-specific case, we can advise our non-twister players to play on Ipoker. From the information we gathered, the players got their bankrolls, confiscation of funds didnt happen.

If you think your ban was unreasonable contact us, we forward the inquiry to Betfair Leaders, and help with problem. The poker room claims that all the cases players who got banned used prohibited softwares or cheated some way or other. We cant help in these cases.

As we spoke with them we dont have any written statement from Betfair. Let me know if you want interviews with them.


Its very hard to catch lies in this case. Players have only limited hand histories and resources. But we know they lied already.

"Furthermore he said MOST OF THESE PLAYERS GOT BANNED FROM POKERSTARS THE LAST YEAR, FOR THE SAME REASON. He also said: "these players should show me their stars account if they didnt use bots""

This is the statement of Stars integrity team about whether they disclose any info to third parties.

https://pasteboard.co/I4iBna6.png

IN this case for sure they lied because how do they know this? Or did Pokerstars integrity lied?