IS SEALS WITH CLUBS DONKDOWN??? (Update: Micon charged with a felony in Nevada)

[NoDoxPoker_Chairman]

I wonder... I got the impression that they had this software in dev long before the collapse... unless Maven saw the end coming a lot sooner than anyone else did of course.

It was in dev before the collapse.

But if you read the press release, it says in no uncertain terms that Mavens won't be used going forward, and a flimsy reason is given regarding the "architecture".

It was obvious that Seals 1 had some kind of relationship with Mavens (they got their updates versions before the rest of us). I assumed, as did many others, that Mavens was given a piece of ownership and abandoned it when the shit went down, and was one of the people who wanted his association to end on Feb 11.

Otherwise, it would have been left open to Micon regarding deciding when to roll out 2.0. Here it was presented as 2.0 or no launch.

I think it was very unlikely that Mavens developer, Briggs Softworks or its principal, Kent Briggs, had any piece of Seals. His business model, as far as I know is to either (a) sell an off-the-shelf $500 play-money site server with no source and limited opportunities for customization through a basic API, or (b) sell the source of PM Version 3 (they're currently on V4) for around 10K. From the old Seals it appeared that they had purchased the old version and done some basic mods - converting to RM, adding a cashier) but not done some of the additional heavy lifting needed to keep up with the new features in V4 (lobby game filters, to name just one) or the increased demands of their users. Furthermore, from our dealings with Briggs, I don't think he would go jeopardize a very successful business (they market several other widely used non-gaming apps) by associating with a real-money poker operation run by Micon or anyone else.

Some of the other comments in this thread are however, right on point. The PM architecture is incredibly robust and well tested. As for Grid-who knows? But I'd bet that the number of hands played in the wild by their system is just a fraction of that for PM. So maybe we should not be too surprised with their current problems. A further question is what technical and/or financial resources Micon has at his disposal to take care of these.

[Belly Buster]

It was in dev before the collapse.

But if you read the press release, it says in no uncertain terms that Mavens won't be used going forward, and a flimsy reason is given regarding the "architecture".

It was obvious that Seals 1 had some kind of relationship with Mavens (they got their updates versions before the rest of us). I assumed, as did many others, that Mavens was given a piece of ownership and abandoned it when the shit went down, and was one of the people who wanted his association to end on Feb 11.

Otherwise, it would have been left open to Micon regarding deciding when to roll out 2.0. Here it was presented as 2.0 or no launch.

I think it was very unlikely that Mavens developer, Briggs Softworks or its principal, Kent Briggs, had any piece of Seals. His business model, as far as I know is to either (a) sell an off-the-shelf $500 play-money site server with no source and limited opportunities for customization through a basic API, or (b) sell the source of PM Version 3 (they're currently on V4) for around 10K. From the old Seals it appeared that they had purchased the old version and done some basic mods - converting to RM, adding a cashier) but not done some of the additional heavy lifting needed to keep up with the new features in V4 (lobby game filters, to name just one) or the increased demands of their users. Furthermore, from our dealings with Briggs, I don't think he would go jeopardize a very successful business (they market several other widely used non-gaming apps) by associating with a real-money poker operation run by Micon or anyone else.

Some of the other comments in this thread are however, right on point. The PM architecture is incredibly robust and well tested. As for Grid-who knows? But I'd bet that the number of hands played in the wild by their system is just a fraction of that for PM. So maybe we should not be too surprised with their current problems. A further question is what technical and/or financial resources Micon has at his disposal to take care of these.

Would agree it is unlikely Kent Briggs had any ownership. Likely he just provided the software like he does for this site.

The PFA room hardly gets a hammering, but the software has run faultlessly for 3 years now, so certainly it is a well designed and tested product.

[Dan Druff]

Briggs clearly gave Seals priority with being the first to get new versions.

But the real telling piece is how insistent the "Seals is closing" press release was regarding the Briggs software. It stated clearly that it was being retired from Seals. Micon was not given the option to continue with it, no matter how well or poorly the Seals 2.0 software ran.

If it were just a matter of being a commercial product purchased from Briggs, they wouldn't have cared if Micon would continue with it, just as Microsoft doesn't care if I use the Windows OS to run an illegal site.

Briggs clearly wanted to separate from Seals after the search & seizure.

[NoDoxPoker_Chairman]

Briggs clearly gave Seals priority with being the first to get new versions.

But the real telling piece is how insistent the "Seals is closing" press release was regarding the Briggs software. It stated clearly that it was being retired from Seals. Micon was not given the option to continue with it, no matter how well or poorly the Seals 2.0 software ran.

If it were just a matter of being a commercial product purchased from Briggs, they wouldn't have cared if Micon would continue with it, just as Microsoft doesn't care if I use the Windows OS to run an illegal site.

Briggs clearly wanted to separate from Seals after the search & seizure.

There is no way the Seals PR is accurate. Once Seals had acquired the product they had had it in their possession. It ran on their server. Briggs had no access or control, and, there was absolutely no way he was a 'partner' in a venture that would be illegal in the US. And once he was 'in', he could never be 'out', since the crime had already been committed.

But Seals needed a plausible story for their failure - that's what you read in the PR. Just think about it - if it were true, Seals just accused Briggs of being involved in an illegal venture, subjecting him to huge legal repercussions if he was investigated. Do you really think Briggs was so naive as to expose himself to this kind of risk?

No, this was a lie told by a group of amoral lowlifers who were out of their depth and with no concern for the damage an unfounded accusation could do.

[sonatine]

SHOTS.

[RichardBrodiesCombover.]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...o-used-bitcoin

Micon's not gonna come back anytime soon.

[sonatine]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...o-used-bitcoin

Micon's not gonna come back anytime soon.

oh dear god...


The Nevada Attorney General’s Office and state gaming regulators are pursuing the operator of an unlicensed online poker site in what’s believed to be first prosecution of its kind by the state.

Attorney General Adam Laxalt has scheduled a news conference Tuesday to give details of a case against Bryan Micon and his Bitcoin-fueled Seals with Clubs poker site, which was shut down Feb. 11.

An arrest warrant was issued against Micon in Las Vegas Justice Court on Monday on one count of operating an unlicensed interactive gaming system. The charge carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine.

Speaking from Antigua in a YouTube video in late February, Micon described a raid of his Las Vegas home.

“A bunch of guys with guns broke down my door, put me in handcuffs, serving a warrant from the Nevada gaming commission,” he said.

The 10 agents “stole most of my electronics,” he added.

Court papers filed Monday state that Micon operated Seals with Clubs, which accepted Bitcoin digital currency, between March 1, 2014 and Feb. 9, 2015 “without first procuring and thereafter maintaining in effect the required licenses.”

Micon promptly shut down Seals With Clubs, but then launched a new Bitcoin poker site, SwCPoker.eu.

“All the Bitcoins were safe,” he said in his YouTube statement, encouraging players to pull their currency from the former site. “Math does not bow to guns.”

Micon was not charged with a crime in February, and it was unclear whether he was still in Antigua when the $20,000 arrest warrant was issued Monday.

“After I was led out in handcuffs in my underwear, it was pretty clear that it was proper to leave sooner rather than later,” he said in the video. “And I didn’t really want my 2-year-old daughter, whom I love very much to grow up in a police state where creativity is often met with guns, handcuffs.”

He said the gaming authorities indicated that they were familiar with his “social feeds and my entire output as a journalist.”

He continued: “I don’t think I was doing anything unethical.”

Micon also supported himself with revenue from live and online poker winnings and operation of legal websites dealing with news about gaming and Bitcoin.

Reached through email Monday, Micon directed inquiries to his lawyer.

[sonatine]

[DRK Star]

[tyde]

Micon also supported himself with revenue from live and online poker winnings

[TheXFactor]

I don't believe that Micon paid $400K for property or $250K paid to the government of Antigua + $60K fee to become a resident.

The Antiguan government can deport Micon anytime and for any reason.

[GrenadaRoger]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...o-used-bitcoin

Micon's not gonna come back anytime soon.

per the above linked article:

"Micon was not charged with a crime in February, and it was unclear whether he was still in Antigua when the $20,000 arrest warrant was issued Monday"

????

someone please explain: $20,000 warrant? is that a bounty or bail?

[NaturalBornHustler]

Dorfman just tweeted:

Arrest warrant out 4 @BryanMicon who never stole a dime,Never an arrest warrant 4 Lederer & crew who ruined so many lives. Sratching my head

[sonatine]

im wondering if swc or whatever its called now has spooled up 50k for him to throw at the problem... might spare him jail time if he can slam dunk a plea.

-360 he gets the case squashed then suddenly no one can cash out of the new site.

[Dan Druff]

Was wondering when this was going to happen.

Interesting that he already had a lawyer (and that he's named Schonfeld -- though different spelling than Adam's name). I assume he probably lawyered up after what occurred in February, knowing the inevitable.

“Bryan has always maintained that he committed no wrongdoing, but I’m not in a position to comment on the Attorney General’s filing because I haven’t seen it,” said defense attorney Richard Schonfeld.

The article says there's going to be a news conference "today" about the matter.

Anyone seen any results of that?

The LV Review Journal has apparently seen the arrest warrant. I'd love to see that, as well. It was filed with the court today.

[4Dragons]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...o-used-bitcoin

Micon's not gonna come back anytime soon.

oh dear god...


The Nevada Attorney General’s Office and state gaming regulators are pursuing the operator of an unlicensed online poker site in what’s believed to be first prosecution of its kind by the state.

Attorney General Adam Laxalt has scheduled a news conference Tuesday to give details of a case against Bryan Micon and his Bitcoin-fueled Seals with Clubs poker site, which was shut down Feb. 11.

An arrest warrant was issued against Micon in Las Vegas Justice Court on Monday

[BeerAndPoker]

Dorfman just tweeted:

Arrest warrant out 4 @BryanMicon who never stole a dime,Never an arrest warrant 4 Lederer & crew who ruined so many lives. Sratching my head

It's a valid point to some extent but also a lot of very different circumstances.

Micon was the spokesman/CEO who owned half of an illegal gambling operation while living in the state of Nevada that really frowns upon that activity.

Full Tilt was at least licensed in their jurisdiction where it was ran just they did a bunch of shady illegal things in order to serve Americans. They weren't shut down for what was found out later that they were relying on monthly profits from it's operation since they spent the players funds that weren't segregated.

Micon/Seals had NO license anywhere and if you live in Vegas advertising that up everywhere I don't care how small of an operation it is you are asking for trouble regardless of your past clean record.

Micon being a wanted man should come as no surprise to anyone since this was only a matter of time.

[TheXFactor]

Was wondering when this was going to happen.

Interesting that he already had a lawyer (and that he's named Schonfeld -- though different spelling than Adam's name). I assume he probably lawyered up after what occurred in February, knowing the inevitable.

“Bryan has always maintained that he committed no wrongdoing, but I’m not in a position to comment on the Attorney General’s filing because I haven’t seen it,” said defense attorney Richard Schonfeld.

The article says there's going to be a news conference "today" about the matter.

Anyone seen any results of that?

The LV Review Journal has apparently seen the arrest warrant. I'd love to see that, as well. It was filed with the court today.

Richard Schonfeld is an attorney associated with David Chesnoff probably the best criminal law firm in Las Vegas.
I guess Bryan Micon paid a $30k to $50K retainer upfront.
My guess is that he will advise Micon to return to Nevada soon to face charges.

[Dan Druff]

"He did nothing wrong, government are thugs" arguments are BS.

These come from either simpletons or fanatical anti-government types who don't understand the concept of opportunity due to illegality.

Simply put, Seals had almost no competition because it was illegal to run.

If it were legal to run a bitcoin gambling site in the US, I would have been running one myself a long time ago.

Seals enjoyed a competition-free existence because everyone else was (rightfully) scared to run such a site here.

Furthermore, the legalized poker sites in Nevada had to incur lots of expense and effort in complying with Nevada gaming regulations.

Seals did not.

So unless you want to say that companies/individuals should just be able to break laws and regulations and suffer no consequence for it, then indeed the arrest and raid were just and proper.

What kind of message would it be sending to sites like WSOP.com if they are forced to follow regulations (and all of the hassles that come with them), while sites like Seals run illegally with zero consequence? This would be punishing the sites/companies following the rules, while letting the illegal ones thrive. It would also be punishing law-abiding citizens/companies who are giving up a potentially lucrative business because they are also following the law regarding not running unregulated sites.

I will concede that what Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson did were much worse, as they ran an unregulated site AND stole our money.

But you also can't scream "OMG abusive government" when someone knowingly runs an illegal gambling site, and then eventually pays the legal price for it.

Similarly, I can't just open up a restaurant and convenience store in my house, and then tell the city government "fuck you" when they complain about zoning law violations. And if I did such a thing, I would have no right to whine about the consequences I would eventually face for it.

[GrenadaRoger]

Dorfman just tweeted:

Arrest warrant out 4 @BryanMicon who never stole a dime,Never an arrest warrant 4 Lederer & crew who ruined so many lives. Sratching my head

It's a valid point to some extent but also a lot of very different circumstances.

Micon was the spokesman/CEO who owned half of an illegal gambling operation while living in the state of Nevada that really frowns upon that activity.

Full Tilt was at least licensed in their jurisdiction where it was ran just they did a bunch of shady illegal things in order to serve Americans. They weren't shut down for what was found out later that they were relying on monthly profits from it's operation since they spent the players funds that weren't segregated.

Micon/Seals had NO license anywhere and if you live in Vegas advertising that up everywhere I don't care how small of an operation it is you are asking for trouble regardless of your past clean record.

Micon being a wanted man should come as no surprise to anyone since this was only a matter of time.

point taken about Micon not stealing from citizens like you or me...the government, and the licensed casinos, see Micon as having stole business from them and illegally participating in the market they control...and the govt almost always wins cases like this